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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 08.20.2002 • • • Building Trade & Fire Code Board of Appeals Minutes For August 20, 2002 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Lynn Davis, Ricky Mason, Roger Dowdy, David Julian, Chris Lefevre STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Greg Zielinski, Code Enforcement Officer, Larry Gould, Chief Building Inspector, Phillip Mize, Fire Marshall and Katy Seals, Secretary GUESTS PRESENT: Don Ralston and Jerry Ulmer Meeting called to order by Ricky Mason First Item on the Agenda: Swearing in of new members - none to be sworn in Second Item on the Agenda: Approval of July 2002 minutes - Lynn Davis made motion to approve the minutes. Roger Dowdy seconded the motion. Motion carried 4 -0. Third Item on the Agenda: Discussion of 2000 International Energy Conservation Code. Larry Gould provided the Board with a handout of what the City of Amarillo passed on the Energy Code and stated it is probably what the City of Plainview will want to adopt. He recommended the Board to look over the handout and see if there are any problems with it. Larry Gould read the following under final inspection in the Energy Code Book: "There shall be a final inspection approval for buildings when completed and ready for occupancy." He stated it gives code enforcement an opportunity to see structures before being covered up. Ricky Mason asked if this will replace the code we have now and Larry Gould responded that we do not have an energy code at this time. Greg Zielinski said this would be a new code requiring new inspections. Larry Gould said this is state mandated. Greg Zielinski said this will affect the City when applying for grants. Ricky Mason asked if we need to amend the IEC Code as did the City of Amarillo? Larry Gould stated that is his recommendation. Ricky Mason asked if separate inspections would be made? Greg Zielinski and Larry Gould said they would have additional inspections to do once the Code is adopted, maybe being able to do these inspections in conjunction with other inspections, depending on the readiness of the contractor. Roger Dowdy asked if the builder would have to call for these inspections and Greg Zielinski said yes. He said the insulation would have to be inspected before the contractor covers it up. Roger Dowdy asked if this Code covers the safety to the house and Larry Gould said it is strictly for the efficiency of the house. Ricky Mason asked if the City would have a computer program for this Code and Greg Zielinski said they already have one. Larry Gould said this Code would probably require the City to have to adopt a mechanical code as well, adding that there are parts of the code that address the mechanical code. Greg Zielinski said contractors will submit a sheet showing everything meets this code when they submit a set of plans and the inspector will make sure through inspections that the building meets what was specified in their plans. Roger Dowdy asked if there were different code organizations on this code or just one energy efficiency code system - is this the only book there is or are there several books and Larry Gould said this is coming out of the newly organized international code group. Greg 1 • • qualifications and experience - Anyone desiring to do work as an apprentice electrician shall be able to 0 read and write the English language. Anyone desiring to work as an apprentice electrician within the City shall register with the electrical inspector and obtain from such office an apprentice work permit. Such permit shall expire on the 31 day of December of each year and may be renewed by application thereafter to the electrical inspector with a payment of $5 for renewal. Every apprentice electrician shall keep such permit in his possession and on his person at all times when engaged in work on any electrical installation project site. Every apprentice shall undertake electrical work only when engaged under the direct supervision of a master electrician, master sign electrician, journeyman electrician, or journeyman sign electrician." Larry Gould added that the following from the City of Plainview's ordinance doesn't have anything to do with apprentice electricians, but he felt is may answer some questions. "It shall be unlawful for any person to do or undertake to do any electrical work within the corporate limits of the City unless licensed under the provisions of this chapter except where such person is expressly exempted from the licensing provision of this chapter. It shall be unlawful for any licensed electrician to allow any unlicensed electrician or unregistered apprentice to work at any job or any electrical installation project under his control or supervision." Ricky Mason asked who is exempted - Larry Gould said that comes under the section of who can pull permits. Chris Lefevre asked if there was presently no ratio of apprentices to master electricians and Larry Gould replied no. Lynn Davis asked why the ratio is needed and Larry Gould said that an apprentice needs to be directly supervised and if you have too many, they would not be able to be directly supervised. Roger Dowdy asked what the benefit of 3:1 as opposed to 2:1 for Plainview and Ricky Mason said it is because journeymen are in short supply. Chris Lefevre made motion to write and bring forth an amendment on apprentice licenses and to add a 3:1 ratio of apprentices to master electrician. Ricky Mason seconded the motion. Motion carried 4 -0. 0 Ricky Mason (with prompting from Larry Gould) asked if there was any new business to discuss or any discussion from the audience. Ricky Mason asked Don Ralston if he wanted to discuss something and Don Ralston said, "I just came to see what you guys are going to do about the County? It is part of that deal about the apprentice, isn't it ?" Ricky Mason said, That is part of it, but I can tell you I had already visited with the City Attorney and Mr. Castro. I had a meeting with them I guess before the last meeting here... and I didn't get no satisfaction. I was told there was nothing the City would do. I told them there was opposition to this and it was not...we took, in fact, I've got it here, we took it out and read it and our City does not interpret our code the same way as I do or some other people does and until we get that in writing they're not going to do anything about it or they cannot do anything about it. That is what they told me." Larry Gould said, "To maybe enlighten you a little bit, Wally's (Hatch) and John's (Castro) and our position on that is, the way that thing is wording is that qualifying more than one business or firm and we don't actually know what the County is going to do so we don't really know what we are talking about." Don Ralston said, "Why don't you call Pat (Gonzales) and ask him." Larry Gould said, "He is out of town." Larry Gould said it is his "understanding that they are not going to use inmates also their interpretation is they are not qualifying the county as an electrical contractor." Don Ralston asked if anyone had talked to the commissioners about it and Larry Gould said, "I talked to Tyler today." Don Ralston said, "Tyler ain't a commissioner." Larry Gould said, "No, but he's the" being cut off by Don Ralston saying, "He's the general on the job." Larry Gould said, "Correct." Ricky Mason said, I met with the County and I talked to commissioners. I've went before the court but it didn't do no good. What they're doing, Don, is if they don't, if he is not working for the County and he does not qualify them as an electrician for the County, now the County is in trouble because now they have put something out to a contractor and it has not gone out for bids. I don't know. This is going to come up because they are either 0 supposed to be hiring this guy or they have went outside the bidding laws." Don Ralston said, "He is 3 • • that's required for the safety of the business. So the way it was written, it's never come up before, but the 40 way it was written was a guy from Lubbock couldn't have a business up there and come down here and say I'm the master electrician and there is the journeyman and he's going to run the business" that's good because it wasn't supervised or whatever." Don Ralston said, "You can't run two businesses with the same license. Say for instance, Pat (Gonzales) had something at the county and he was under something else besides Pat Gonzales Electric, then he's in violation of the City Ordinance. As long as everything he does runs through Pat Gonzales Electric, I don't see that you can do anything about it." Larry Gould responded, "Correct." Ricky Mason said, The City can't, but we can because of the County." Don Ralston asked, "How can the City do it if he's running everything as Pat Gonzales Electric." Ricky Mason said, "He'd be legal then but I say 'we', me as a private individual can fight the county on it because of bid laws." Don Ralston said, "Well, I understand that." Ricky Mason said, "The City won't be able to do nothing with it." Don Ralston said, "That's a different deal with the County and the bid laws." Ricky Mason said, "That's just like Don McMillan. He does everything in Don McMillan's Electric. I don't know that he's ever pulled a permit, well, I guess for the school system." Larry Gould replied, "Several years." Don Ralston asked, "Who's pulling all their permits ?" Larry Gould said, "As far as I know, they're not doing anything that requires a permit." Don Ralston said, "They're doing a lot of stuff that requires a permit. You can bet your life on that." Ricky Mason said, "That they know of." Don Ralston said, "That'd be like Don doing work they didn't pull a permit on. It happens all the time. They carry breaker boxes and breakers, conduit and stuff out of the supplies left and right." Ricky Mason requested the next meeting agenda include discussing the requirements for master electricians license qualifying more than one party, entity, or business. Larry Gould said he wants him to make a recommendation as to how he thinks it should be worded. • Fifth Item on the Agenda: Chris Lefevre made motion to adjourn and Lynn Davis seconded the motion. Motion carried 4 -0. MEETING ADJOURNMENT CHAIRMAN I 1 JI �QD SECRETARY • 5 • • 1 supposed to be classified as temporary help." Ricky Mason said, "Right. Supposed to be an employee. Now if he is an employee, he can't be employed as a company. He has got to be qualifying the County or he has got to be qualifying Pat's Electric." Larry Gould said it is his understanding this is a contract for any time that he is doing work for the county for $35 an hour." Don Ralston said, "It covers everything for the whole County." Larry Gould said, "Anytime he is on the job (inaudible), kind of like a service contract." Don Ralston said, "Any building that pertains that pertains to the county - it covers it - Court House, 011ie Liner Center, RV Park, Jail, any precinct locations for the commissioners (inaudible) it covers all of them." Ricky Mason said, "See there, against the law." Don Ralston said, "I think Don McMillan does the same thing for the high school, isn't he ?" Larry Gould said, "Yeah, he is a full time employee of the school." Don Ralston said, "Basically the same thing. (Inaudible) his own business here in town, doesn't he? He still could, I mean. They're just using his license to let those guys go out there and do the work that they're doing unsupervised." Philip Mize said, "He doesn't still operate as a business, though. He strictly works for the schools." Larry Gould said He has not pulled a permit for anything in quite some time." Don Ralston said, "Probably a lot of people aren't pulling permits." Ricky Mason said, "See, I think that is what it is going to come back up - if he tries to pull a permit under Don's Electric, then it is going to be trouble." Don Ralston said, "Who ?" Ricky Mason said, "Not Don's - whatever his McMillan or however he goes, I don't know what he was going by. I don't know. See, that is one thing were trying to do." Jerry Ulmer said, "You're basically going to look at taking everybody that works for the fire department that has their own business doing the same set of criteria. You cant have a job and you can't run a business if you've got a job with a public entity. Isn't that basically what you're wanting to take and do to these people ?" Ricky Mason said, "No, because you don't have to have a license. If you're a paramedic licensing or whatever for the fire department, I guess you could not go work for the hospital as a paramedic - I don't know." Jerry Ulmer asked, "You couldn't have your own ambulance service or something else where you use that specialty license that you have ?" Chris Lefevre asked, "Their license • forbids that ?" Ricky Mason said, "See, I don't know." Larry Gould said, "I am not familiar with what their rules and regs are. Philip (Mize) might be able to answer it." Philip Mize said, "As long as you operate under TDH regulations, you can work for whoever or whatever business you want. But you have to operate under the state mandated criteria." (Inaudible). Lynn Davis asked, "Do some of the paramedics for the City also work for the, I forget the name of the other ambulance service that does some transporting, Lubbock Aide, or whatever it is ?" Philip Mize replied, "Yes, and some of them drive to Lubbock and work for Lubbock EMS." Lynn Davis said, "Aerocare." Don Ralston said, "But they alternate days back and forth, don't they? I mean, it is not a full time (inaudible)." Philip Mize said, "It's alternated and any other job that they hold is secondary to whatever they do with the City. If there is a scheduling conflict, their second job - they just don't get to go. If that causes them to lose that job, so be it." Don Ralston said, "Which means their primary employer is the City of Plainview." Philip Mize said, "Right." Lynn Davis said, "That's what I was getting at. The primary employee is..." being cut off by Don Ralston who said, "As long as it doesn't conflict with the City of Plainview's stuff, they can go do their other stuff in their spare time or their off days is what it amounts to." Lynn Davis asked, "Are we not talking about something similar ?" Ricky Mason said, "Well, no, because nobody's license qualifies, you know, like if it took one ambulance driver to qualify all the paramedics, or you know if it took one paramedic to qualify everybody else in the fire department, now he couldn't also go over here and qualify Joe Blow's Ambulance Service." Philip Mize said, "It is an individual certification." Ricky Mason said, "Right. This way, you've got to have one qualifying party. Now, I can't go out and qualify a County over here. I can't go qualify the City over here. I can't go qualify the school district over here. That is what this is getting in to. I mean, for the way it's written right now and the way everybody is interpreting it, one guy could go around and qualify everybody and that's not right because you're not getting the supervision 4 • 1 Zielinski said the State is mandating all cities in the state of Texas adopt this code. Ricky Mason said we have no choice but to pass this code. Chris Lefevre asked if the city does not adopt the code would the • City lose federal funding? Larry Gould said probably yes. Roger Dowdy asked what is the deadline? Larry Gould said September 1, 2002. Roger Dowdy asked if we pass this code, what happens to the mechanical code and Larry Gould said it would be another step to follow, approaching the mechanical code in the future. Greg Zielinski said he has a mechanical code ordinance written and all the Board has to do is send it to the City Council. But they wanted to get the Energy Code taken care of first. Roger Dowdy asked if the City of Lubbock had already adopted this code? Larry Gould said Amarillo is and he isn't sure about Lubbock, but thinks they are, too. Ricky Mason asked when would the City of Plainview start enforcing the Code and Greg Zielinski said as soon as an ordinance is passed and contractors are educated, adding the City Council may set a date when the enforcement begins. Greg Zielinski said the Code Enforcement Officers must become certified before enforcing can begin. Ricky Mason made motion to accept the International Energy Efficiency Code as presented by the City of Amarillo. Roger Dowdy seconded the motion. Motion carried 4 -0. Fourth Item on the Agenda: Discussion of the requirements for an Apprentice Electrical License. Larry Gould read the following from Lubbock: "Every person desiring to do work as an apprentice electrician shall be able to read and write English language and shall be employed by a licensed master electrician, master sign electrician, or a company who has in its employ an in house master electrician licensed by the board." "No class of electricians licensed under this code shall have more than 3 apprentice electricians working under his direct supervision and control." Larry Gould said the last statement is not in our code but needed to be added. He read the following from Amarillo: "Apprentice electrician - each applicant must furnish within ten days after the individual has been employed as an apprentice electrician, a written request by the master electrician employing the apprentice requesting issuance of a license to the • apprentice." Larry Gould said he would take a combination of what exists currently in our ordinance and these items in Lubbock and Amarillo's for changes to our ordinance. Ricky Mason asked if Amarillo had a ratio of apprentices to master license? Larry Gould said the ordinance says two but he thinks it has been changed to three. Greg Zielinski said he thinks it has been changed to three. Ricky Mason said the State of New Mexico is 2:1. Larry Gould read the following from the Amarillo ordinance: "Apprentice Electrician - one who assists and works under the constant supervision of a master or journeyman electrician in electrical installations. No person shall work as an apprentice electrician without an apprentice electrician's license issued by the City." Chris Lefevre asked it the City of Plainview licenses apprentices now and Larry Gould said we have in the past and the City will need to do it in the future, keeping up with time for the apprentices. Roger Dowdy asked what an apprentice does without a licensed master electrician? Ricky Mason answered, "Nothing - just like an apprentice plumber." Larry Gould said he would be unable to perform any work that requires a permit without the direct supervision of a master electrician. Ricky Mason asked about issuing licenses to prisoners and Larry Gould said he had a conversation with W. M. Tyler who verbally assured him that the inmates would not be doing plumbing or electrical work. Ricky Mason said, "One man is going to wire that whole building." Greg Zielinski said there have been no plans submitted or permits pulled other than a demolition permit for Hale County in the old Sears building, adding that they did some electrical and some plumbing work to get the heating and some power turned on. Don Ralston said he had done the work for the temporary electrical service of the building. Larry Gould said the City of Plainview's Ordinance defined an apprentice electrician as "one who assists a master or journeyman electrician in installations and who works under the constant direct supervision of a master or journeyman electrician and who holds a license issued under the provisions of this chapter. The scope of an apprentice electrician license - apprentice • 2