HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 08.20.2002 • •
• Building Trade & Fire Code Board of Appeals
Minutes
For
August 20, 2002
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Lynn Davis, Ricky Mason, Roger Dowdy, David Julian, Chris
Lefevre
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Greg Zielinski, Code Enforcement Officer, Larry Gould, Chief
Building Inspector, Phillip Mize, Fire Marshall and Katy Seals, Secretary
GUESTS PRESENT: Don Ralston and Jerry Ulmer
Meeting called to order by Ricky Mason
First Item on the Agenda: Swearing in of new members - none to be sworn in
Second Item on the Agenda: Approval of July 2002 minutes - Lynn Davis made motion to approve the
minutes. Roger Dowdy seconded the motion. Motion carried 4 -0.
Third Item on the Agenda: Discussion of 2000 International Energy Conservation Code. Larry Gould
provided the Board with a handout of what the City of Amarillo passed on the Energy Code and stated it is
probably what the City of Plainview will want to adopt. He recommended the Board to look over the
handout and see if there are any problems with it. Larry Gould read the following under final inspection
in the Energy Code Book: "There shall be a final inspection approval for buildings when completed and
ready for occupancy." He stated it gives code enforcement an opportunity to see structures before being
covered up. Ricky Mason asked if this will replace the code we have now and Larry Gould responded that
we do not have an energy code at this time. Greg Zielinski said this would be a new code requiring new
inspections. Larry Gould said this is state mandated. Greg Zielinski said this will affect the City when
applying for grants. Ricky Mason asked if we need to amend the IEC Code as did the City of Amarillo?
Larry Gould stated that is his recommendation. Ricky Mason asked if separate inspections would be
made? Greg Zielinski and Larry Gould said they would have additional inspections to do once the Code is
adopted, maybe being able to do these inspections in conjunction with other inspections, depending on the
readiness of the contractor. Roger Dowdy asked if the builder would have to call for these inspections and
Greg Zielinski said yes. He said the insulation would have to be inspected before the contractor covers it
up. Roger Dowdy asked if this Code covers the safety to the house and Larry Gould said it is strictly for
the efficiency of the house. Ricky Mason asked if the City would have a computer program for this Code
and Greg Zielinski said they already have one. Larry Gould said this Code would probably require the
City to have to adopt a mechanical code as well, adding that there are parts of the code that address the
mechanical code. Greg Zielinski said contractors will submit a sheet showing everything meets this code
when they submit a set of plans and the inspector will make sure through inspections that the building
meets what was specified in their plans. Roger Dowdy asked if there were different code organizations on
this code or just one energy efficiency code system - is this the only book there is or are there several
books and Larry Gould said this is coming out of the newly organized international code group. Greg
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qualifications and experience - Anyone desiring to do work as an apprentice electrician shall be able to
0 read and write the English language. Anyone desiring to work as an apprentice electrician within the City
shall register with the electrical inspector and obtain from such office an apprentice work permit. Such
permit shall expire on the 31 day of December of each year and may be renewed by application thereafter
to the electrical inspector with a payment of $5 for renewal. Every apprentice electrician shall keep such
permit in his possession and on his person at all times when engaged in work on any electrical installation
project site. Every apprentice shall undertake electrical work only when engaged under the direct
supervision of a master electrician, master sign electrician, journeyman electrician, or journeyman sign
electrician." Larry Gould added that the following from the City of Plainview's ordinance doesn't have
anything to do with apprentice electricians, but he felt is may answer some questions. "It shall be
unlawful for any person to do or undertake to do any electrical work within the corporate limits of the City
unless licensed under the provisions of this chapter except where such person is expressly exempted from
the licensing provision of this chapter. It shall be unlawful for any licensed electrician to allow any
unlicensed electrician or unregistered apprentice to work at any job or any electrical installation project
under his control or supervision." Ricky Mason asked who is exempted - Larry Gould said that comes
under the section of who can pull permits. Chris Lefevre asked if there was presently no ratio of
apprentices to master electricians and Larry Gould replied no. Lynn Davis asked why the ratio is needed
and Larry Gould said that an apprentice needs to be directly supervised and if you have too many, they
would not be able to be directly supervised. Roger Dowdy asked what the benefit of 3:1 as opposed to 2:1
for Plainview and Ricky Mason said it is because journeymen are in short supply. Chris Lefevre made
motion to write and bring forth an amendment on apprentice licenses and to add a 3:1 ratio of apprentices
to master electrician. Ricky Mason seconded the motion. Motion carried 4 -0.
0 Ricky Mason (with prompting from Larry Gould) asked if there was any new business to discuss or any
discussion from the audience. Ricky Mason asked Don Ralston if he wanted to discuss something and
Don Ralston said, "I just came to see what you guys are going to do about the County? It is part of that
deal about the apprentice, isn't it ?" Ricky Mason said, That is part of it, but I can tell you I had already
visited with the City Attorney and Mr. Castro. I had a meeting with them I guess before the last meeting
here... and I didn't get no satisfaction. I was told there was nothing the City would do. I told them there
was opposition to this and it was not...we took, in fact, I've got it here, we took it out and read it and our
City does not interpret our code the same way as I do or some other people does and until we get that in
writing they're not going to do anything about it or they cannot do anything about it. That is what they
told me." Larry Gould said, "To maybe enlighten you a little bit, Wally's (Hatch) and John's (Castro) and
our position on that is, the way that thing is wording is that qualifying more than one business or firm and
we don't actually know what the County is going to do so we don't really know what we are talking
about." Don Ralston said, "Why don't you call Pat (Gonzales) and ask him." Larry Gould said, "He is out
of town." Larry Gould said it is his "understanding that they are not going to use inmates also their
interpretation is they are not qualifying the county as an electrical contractor." Don Ralston asked if
anyone had talked to the commissioners about it and Larry Gould said, "I talked to Tyler today." Don
Ralston said, "Tyler ain't a commissioner." Larry Gould said, "No, but he's the" being cut off by Don
Ralston saying, "He's the general on the job." Larry Gould said, "Correct." Ricky Mason said, I met with
the County and I talked to commissioners. I've went before the court but it didn't do no good. What
they're doing, Don, is if they don't, if he is not working for the County and he does not qualify them as an
electrician for the County, now the County is in trouble because now they have put something out to a
contractor and it has not gone out for bids. I don't know. This is going to come up because they are either
0 supposed to be hiring this guy or they have went outside the bidding laws." Don Ralston said, "He is
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that's required for the safety of the business. So the way it was written, it's never come up before, but the
40 way it was written was a guy from Lubbock couldn't have a business up there and come down here and
say I'm the master electrician and there is the journeyman and he's going to run the business" that's good
because it wasn't supervised or whatever." Don Ralston said, "You can't run two businesses with the same
license. Say for instance, Pat (Gonzales) had something at the county and he was under something else
besides Pat Gonzales Electric, then he's in violation of the City Ordinance. As long as everything he does
runs through Pat Gonzales Electric, I don't see that you can do anything about it." Larry Gould responded,
"Correct." Ricky Mason said, The City can't, but we can because of the County." Don Ralston asked,
"How can the City do it if he's running everything as Pat Gonzales Electric." Ricky Mason said, "He'd be
legal then but I say 'we', me as a private individual can fight the county on it because of bid laws." Don
Ralston said, "Well, I understand that." Ricky Mason said, "The City won't be able to do nothing with it."
Don Ralston said, "That's a different deal with the County and the bid laws." Ricky Mason said, "That's
just like Don McMillan. He does everything in Don McMillan's Electric. I don't know that he's ever
pulled a permit, well, I guess for the school system." Larry Gould replied, "Several years." Don Ralston
asked, "Who's pulling all their permits ?" Larry Gould said, "As far as I know, they're not doing anything
that requires a permit." Don Ralston said, "They're doing a lot of stuff that requires a permit. You can bet
your life on that." Ricky Mason said, "That they know of." Don Ralston said, "That'd be like Don doing
work they didn't pull a permit on. It happens all the time. They carry breaker boxes and breakers, conduit
and stuff out of the supplies left and right."
Ricky Mason requested the next meeting agenda include discussing the requirements for master
electricians license qualifying more than one party, entity, or business. Larry Gould said he wants him to
make a recommendation as to how he thinks it should be worded.
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Fifth Item on the Agenda: Chris Lefevre made motion to adjourn and Lynn Davis seconded the motion.
Motion carried 4 -0.
MEETING ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN
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SECRETARY
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supposed to be classified as temporary help." Ricky Mason said, "Right. Supposed to be an employee.
Now if he is an employee, he can't be employed as a company. He has got to be qualifying the County or
he has got to be qualifying Pat's Electric." Larry Gould said it is his understanding this is a contract for
any time that he is doing work for the county for $35 an hour." Don Ralston said, "It covers everything
for the whole County." Larry Gould said, "Anytime he is on the job (inaudible), kind of like a service
contract." Don Ralston said, "Any building that pertains that pertains to the county - it covers it - Court
House, 011ie Liner Center, RV Park, Jail, any precinct locations for the commissioners (inaudible) it
covers all of them." Ricky Mason said, "See there, against the law." Don Ralston said, "I think Don
McMillan does the same thing for the high school, isn't he ?" Larry Gould said, "Yeah, he is a full time
employee of the school." Don Ralston said, "Basically the same thing. (Inaudible) his own business here
in town, doesn't he? He still could, I mean. They're just using his license to let those guys go out there
and do the work that they're doing unsupervised." Philip Mize said, "He doesn't still operate as a business,
though. He strictly works for the schools." Larry Gould said He has not pulled a permit for anything in
quite some time." Don Ralston said, "Probably a lot of people aren't pulling permits." Ricky Mason said,
"See, I think that is what it is going to come back up - if he tries to pull a permit under Don's Electric, then
it is going to be trouble." Don Ralston said, "Who ?" Ricky Mason said, "Not Don's - whatever his
McMillan or however he goes, I don't know what he was going by. I don't know. See, that is one thing
were trying to do." Jerry Ulmer said, "You're basically going to look at taking everybody that works for
the fire department that has their own business doing the same set of criteria. You cant have a job and you
can't run a business if you've got a job with a public entity. Isn't that basically what you're wanting to take
and do to these people ?" Ricky Mason said, "No, because you don't have to have a license. If you're a
paramedic licensing or whatever for the fire department, I guess you could not go work for the hospital as
a paramedic - I don't know." Jerry Ulmer asked, "You couldn't have your own ambulance service or
something else where you use that specialty license that you have ?" Chris Lefevre asked, "Their license
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forbids that ?" Ricky Mason said, "See, I don't know." Larry Gould said, "I am not familiar with what
their rules and regs are. Philip (Mize) might be able to answer it." Philip Mize said, "As long as you
operate under TDH regulations, you can work for whoever or whatever business you want. But you have
to operate under the state mandated criteria." (Inaudible). Lynn Davis asked, "Do some of the paramedics
for the City also work for the, I forget the name of the other ambulance service that does some
transporting, Lubbock Aide, or whatever it is ?" Philip Mize replied, "Yes, and some of them drive to
Lubbock and work for Lubbock EMS." Lynn Davis said, "Aerocare." Don Ralston said, "But they
alternate days back and forth, don't they? I mean, it is not a full time (inaudible)." Philip Mize said, "It's
alternated and any other job that they hold is secondary to whatever they do with the City. If there is a
scheduling conflict, their second job - they just don't get to go. If that causes them to lose that job, so be
it." Don Ralston said, "Which means their primary employer is the City of Plainview." Philip Mize said,
"Right." Lynn Davis said, "That's what I was getting at. The primary employee is..." being cut off by
Don Ralston who said, "As long as it doesn't conflict with the City of Plainview's stuff, they can go do
their other stuff in their spare time or their off days is what it amounts to." Lynn Davis asked, "Are we not
talking about something similar ?" Ricky Mason said, "Well, no, because nobody's license qualifies, you
know, like if it took one ambulance driver to qualify all the paramedics, or you know if it took one
paramedic to qualify everybody else in the fire department, now he couldn't also go over here and qualify
Joe Blow's Ambulance Service." Philip Mize said, "It is an individual certification." Ricky Mason said,
"Right. This way, you've got to have one qualifying party. Now, I can't go out and qualify a County over
here. I can't go qualify the City over here. I can't go qualify the school district over here. That is what
this is getting in to. I mean, for the way it's written right now and the way everybody is interpreting it, one
guy could go around and qualify everybody and that's not right because you're not getting the supervision
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Zielinski said the State is mandating all cities in the state of Texas adopt this code. Ricky Mason said we
have no choice but to pass this code. Chris Lefevre asked if the city does not adopt the code would the •
City lose federal funding? Larry Gould said probably yes. Roger Dowdy asked what is the deadline?
Larry Gould said September 1, 2002. Roger Dowdy asked if we pass this code, what happens to the
mechanical code and Larry Gould said it would be another step to follow, approaching the mechanical
code in the future. Greg Zielinski said he has a mechanical code ordinance written and all the Board has
to do is send it to the City Council. But they wanted to get the Energy Code taken care of first. Roger
Dowdy asked if the City of Lubbock had already adopted this code? Larry Gould said Amarillo is and he
isn't sure about Lubbock, but thinks they are, too. Ricky Mason asked when would the City of Plainview
start enforcing the Code and Greg Zielinski said as soon as an ordinance is passed and contractors are
educated, adding the City Council may set a date when the enforcement begins. Greg Zielinski said the
Code Enforcement Officers must become certified before enforcing can begin. Ricky Mason made motion
to accept the International Energy Efficiency Code as presented by the City of Amarillo. Roger Dowdy
seconded the motion. Motion carried 4 -0.
Fourth Item on the Agenda: Discussion of the requirements for an Apprentice Electrical License. Larry
Gould read the following from Lubbock: "Every person desiring to do work as an apprentice electrician
shall be able to read and write English language and shall be employed by a licensed master electrician,
master sign electrician, or a company who has in its employ an in house master electrician licensed by the
board." "No class of electricians licensed under this code shall have more than 3 apprentice electricians
working under his direct supervision and control." Larry Gould said the last statement is not in our code
but needed to be added. He read the following from Amarillo: "Apprentice electrician - each applicant
must furnish within ten days after the individual has been employed as an apprentice electrician, a written
request by the master electrician employing the apprentice requesting issuance of a license to the
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apprentice." Larry Gould said he would take a combination of what exists currently in our ordinance and
these items in Lubbock and Amarillo's for changes to our ordinance. Ricky Mason asked if Amarillo had
a ratio of apprentices to master license? Larry Gould said the ordinance says two but he thinks it has been
changed to three. Greg Zielinski said he thinks it has been changed to three. Ricky Mason said the State
of New Mexico is 2:1. Larry Gould read the following from the Amarillo ordinance: "Apprentice
Electrician - one who assists and works under the constant supervision of a master or journeyman
electrician in electrical installations. No person shall work as an apprentice electrician without an
apprentice electrician's license issued by the City." Chris Lefevre asked it the City of Plainview licenses
apprentices now and Larry Gould said we have in the past and the City will need to do it in the future,
keeping up with time for the apprentices. Roger Dowdy asked what an apprentice does without a
licensed master electrician? Ricky Mason answered, "Nothing - just like an apprentice plumber." Larry
Gould said he would be unable to perform any work that requires a permit without the direct supervision
of a master electrician. Ricky Mason asked about issuing licenses to prisoners and Larry Gould said he
had a conversation with W. M. Tyler who verbally assured him that the inmates would not be doing
plumbing or electrical work. Ricky Mason said, "One man is going to wire that whole building." Greg
Zielinski said there have been no plans submitted or permits pulled other than a demolition permit for
Hale County in the old Sears building, adding that they did some electrical and some plumbing work to
get the heating and some power turned on. Don Ralston said he had done the work for the temporary
electrical service of the building. Larry Gould said the City of Plainview's Ordinance defined an
apprentice electrician as "one who assists a master or journeyman electrician in installations and who
works under the constant direct supervision of a master or journeyman electrician and who holds a license
issued under the provisions of this chapter. The scope of an apprentice electrician license - apprentice
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